readywriting Time is, technically, up. We're trying to figure out what to do about archives as what we were using was discontinued. #FYCchat -10:00 PM Apr 13th, 2011
literarychica @drnels That sounds like a cool idea! Where I worked before we had a journal of FYC writing. Here? Not so much. :-/#fycchat -10:00 PM Apr 13th, 2011
Dana_Forbes Higher education will evaporate if students bifurcate the social and academic.#fycchat -9:59 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @Dana_Forbes I try to remind them of real world examples of the kinds of writing we do in class. #fycchat -9:59 PM Apr 13th, 2011
JudyArzt @comPOSITIONblog Agree, book "I Say...." formula! Gets point across, but students /writers should not depend on it.#fycchat -9:58 PM Apr 13th, 2011
aplusadvantage @readywriting @dana_forbes That's so true. Essays become almost anti-social in nature #fycchat -9:58 PM Apr 13th, 2011
readywriting @Dana_Forbes I explain to my students all of the diff forces pulling on an academic essay. Audience/purpose hard to balance. #FYCchat -9:58 PM Apr 13th, 2011
drnels @literarychica Our uni has a writing contest for first-year writing. First prize $500. That wakes some of them up. #fycchat -9:58 PM Apr 13th, 2011
tjgeiger85 @drnels #fycchat I use Writing Analytically too. It's got very useful strategies for getting to students to "dwell in the data." #FYCchat -9:58 PM Apr 13th, 2011
mday666 #fycchat Any book has to be used in conjunction with a lot of discussion and practice, and use of fun exercises like the quote sandwich. -9:58 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @readywriting Which is why I SO wanted to incorporate the blog into my course this sem! :) #fycchat -9:58 PM Apr 13th, 2011
comPOSITIONblog @Dana_Forbes I also give them assignments that challenge them to think of audiences other than myself/their classmates. #fycchat -9:58 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @Dana_Forbes I just tell them flat out and push the issue all semester: writing is a social transaction.#fycchat -9:58 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting We're winding down. I'll be a real teacher: What did we take away from tonight's chat? #FYCchat -9:58 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @readywriting Yup! They don't see who would want to read them. Or that anyone would be interested in their acad. writing. #fycchat -9:57 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Dana_Forbes How can we help students connect the social to the academic?#fycchat -9:57 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @Dana_Forbes So if something is difficult to understand, must not be v social. #FYCchat -9:57 PM Apr 13th, 2011 drnels :: For me, "Writing Analytically" has been the text that gives me the best ideas for teaching how to work with sources.#fycchat -9:56 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @Dana_Forbes Although I would argue that students don't think there's anything "social" about "academic" essays.#FYCchat -9:56 PM Apr 13th, 2011 tjgeiger85 RT @Dana_Forbes: Students are so use to rules that they forget the social dimension of writing.#fycchat #FYCchat -9:56 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @Dana_Forbes I agree. I wrote such crap when I thought the 5 paragraph essay was the way you were really supposed to write. #fycchat -9:55 PM Apr 13th, 2011
bzeducon @comPOSITIONblog @readywriting @mday666 Graffs know their stuff. If students think it's patronizing, then write better papers. #FYCchat -9:55 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @comPOSITIONblog @readywriting @mday666 I've found that sometimes they can't find the words to say it. The formulas help. #fycchat -9:55 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting RT @Dana_Forbes: Students are so use to rules that they forget the social dimension of writing.#fycchat #FYCchat -9:55 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Dana_Forbes Students are so use to rules that they forget the social dimension of writing.#fycchat -9:55 PM Apr 13th, 2011
jillian6475 RT @readywriting: RT @mday666: Sources only matter to students if they understand how we build credibility by entering into convo w/source authors. #FYCchat -9:55 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog I had an ELL student quite literally plug-in their ideas to the format given in the book. The words didn't even work together. #fycchat -9:54 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @mday666 I like it esp for my basic writers. They just put in quotes with no context or explanation. It's a place to start.#FYCchat -9:54 PM Apr 13th, 2011 mday666 @comPOSITIONblog @readywriting #fycchat GLAD to hear you hate it! We have debates in class about formulas and how to defeat them -9:54 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @comPOSITIONblog @readywriting @mday666 Oh, I like using that book bc of the formulas. Sometimes it helps 2 have a cheat sheet. ;) #fycchat -9:53 PM Apr 13th, 2011 mday666 @readywriting #fycchat yes, because followed slavishly, TSIS can act like an argument machine, devoid of style or content.-9:53 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @literarychica If I read another, In other words, I'm going to go nuts. #FYCchat -9:53 PM Apr 13th, 2011
uscedu67 RT @readywriting: I've found once students understand how much time goes into writing a peer-review essay, they take it more seriously. #FYCchat -9:53 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt R@bzeducon Okay, but juniors can also handle that kind of lit review in 300-level courses. #fycchat -9:53 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @readywriting Lol. I use it literally in class. I hope it shows them writing is a conversation. "They say...but I say..."#fycchat -9:52 PM Apr 13th, 2011 drnels @comPOSITIONblog @readywriting @mday666 I've had students love and hate the book. Really don't know what to think of it now. #fycchat -9:52 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting I've found once students understand how much time goes into writing a peer-review essay, they take it more seriously.#FYCchat -9:51 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @JudyArzt Mean a lit review as part of a research paper that is a discipline-specific assignment (e.g., a senior honors thesis). #FYCchat -9:51 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @readywriting @mday666 I really hate that book :/ Sorry. I think it makes students think of writing as a formula or ad-lib. #fycchat -9:51 PM Apr 13th, 2011
ryancordell @disedlibrarian great idea. Students also understand why it would be uncool to repost something on FB or twitter w/o attribution #FYCchat -9:50 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon RT @JudyArzt: @bzeducon Do you mean writing a lit review for a research study as well as a discipline-specific assignment? #fycchat -9:50 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt @bzeducon I see what you mean: in effect, they need practice over time w/in the discipline for the progression. #fycchat-9:50 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @mday666 I love They Say/I Say. It's been a lifesaver (unless they start taking it too literally). #FYCchat -9:49 PM Apr 13th, 2011 drnels @mday666 We have had such a large service-learning push at our uni that some students want to get away from the local. I try global #fycchat -9:49 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @JudyArzt I'm not sure I do. I think that's a place where I drop the ball. Although, maybe that's what my Twitter discussion qs do? #fycchat -9:49 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @JudyArzt I just assign "active reading", then active re-reading, then finding quotes, then essay outlines, then paragraphs... #FYCchat -9:49 PM Apr 13th, 2011 mday666 #fycchat but that's really more for the general FYComp course, not so much for the WAC or WID course. -9:49 PM Apr 13th, 2011 drnels @JudyArzt The biggest challenge if forcing students to slow down. They want to get done fast, so I force them to go slow.#fycchat -9:48 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @JudyArzt Meant they need 2+ yrs of field-specific writing before generalists (like fellowships advisers) can help at next level. #FYCchat -9:48 PM Apr 13th, 2011 mday666 #fycchat if we can get them motivated with local issues like recycling or parking or energy, then books like They Say I Say can scaffold... -9:48 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt #fycchat How do you help students do deep reading & annotate their reading to synthesis info into a cohesive text?#fycchat -9:47 PM Apr 13th, 2011
Bill_Torgerson @comPOSITIONblog @Bill_Torgerson There are some students that would let you sit in for them. NYC forecast good for 2 morrow :) #fycchat -9:46 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog RT @disedlibrarian: I tell students that citing is like linking on the web/FB-people like it better when you link to good stuff. #fycchat -9:46 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @drnels @comPOSITIONblog I like that. Will insert that into lesson plan next week. #fycchat -9:46 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @disedlibrarian Hey! I like that analogy. May have to steal it next semester =) #fycchat -9:46 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @drnels We had to "write until it made sense." He was very into dialectic/dialogic writing. #fycchat -9:45 PM Apr 13th, 2011
TeachMoore @Bill_Torgerson A great approach thinking of authors and entering conversation with them #fycchat -9:45 PM Apr 13th, 2011
disedlibrarian I tell students that citing is like linking on the web/Facebook-people like it better when you link to good stuff.#FYCchat -9:45 PM Apr 13th, 2011
plcorbett RT for truth // @disedlibrarian: Librarians can help with assignments more if they are informed of assignments ahead of time! #fycchat -9:45 PM Apr 13th, 2011 drnels @comPOSITIONblog Having students work intensely with one quotation is something I have students do a lot. #fycchat -9:44 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @Bill_Torgerson I want to be in your FYW class! Just for the record haha #fycchat -9:44 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @comPOSITIONblog @mday666 And it's about conversation with the sources #fycchat -9:44 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @readywriting So read at home, then come to class and re-read. Haven't figured out details! #fycchat -9:44 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt @bzeducon Do you mean writing a lit review for a research study as well as a discipline-specific assignment?#fycchat -9:43 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @mday666 Yes. That's an excellent point. I try to emphasize that as well. It's not about "citing;" it's about credibility. #fycchat -9:43 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting RT @mday666: Sources only matter to students if they understand how we build credibility by entering into convo w/source authors. #FYCchat -9:43 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson I ask them lots of questions about the authors. I try to use the authors names a lot so we start to think of them as people. #fycchat -9:43 PM Apr 13th, 2011 TeachMoore @comPOSITIONblog Just because they've made it to college doesn't mean they've been taught how to handle text analysis #fycchat -9:43 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @readywriting I'm trying something new this sem: a whole week 2 working with sources. Plan 2 have them bring one 2 class & discuss. #fycchat -9:43 PM Apr 13th, 2011 mday666 #fycchat and that they have enough motivation to want to enter into such conversations, and to put authors in conversation with each other. -9:43 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @readywriting My teacher in grad Rhet/Comp class told us to write down quotes that confused us and then dissect them in writing #fycchat -9:43 PM Apr 13th, 2011 mday666 #fycchat Sources only matter to students if they understand how we build credibility by entering into conversations with source authors. -9:42 PM Apr 13th, 2011
DrDavisTCE Heading out. Thanks for the ideas. Glad I was able to pop in. #fycchat -9:42 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt @drnels Some places don't have the full year sequence--thus, needs to carry through: across and w/in disciplines #fycchat -9:42 PM Apr 13th, 2011 drnels @Bill_Torgerson "Course Deletion" was just the category on the university's form, but we did delete the course b/c of overlap.#fycchat -9:42 PM Apr 13th, 2011 TeachMoore @readywriting Students often need help with analyzing texts from content areas or other nonfiction reading#FYCchat -9:42 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @readywriting They're in college. End of story. It's not supposed to be easy. #fycchat -9:41 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @aplusadvantage It's a bit of an aside. We're talking about teaching sources and the "research essay" #FYCchat -9:41 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @Bill_Torgerson I love that idea of teaching them to read like a writer. Started out w/ that this sem, but forgot along the way. :) #fycchat -9:41 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @DrDavisTCE I was tempted to tell one student he would have been fired if my class was a job, but I held my tongue haha #fycchat -9:41 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @JudyArzt Should get feedback if bkgrd & lit review (summary, paraphrase) in upper-level research paper don't reflect FYC training. #FYCchat -9:41 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting How do we get students over the common complaint that reading these sources is *so hard* (add a bunch of aaaaaaaaaa) #FYCchat -9:41 PM Apr 13th, 2011 aplusadvantage @drnels @readywriting @comPOSITIONblog Hi all. I am coming in late, bit isn't argument persuasive? Isn't persuasion argumentative? #fycchat -9:41 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt @bzeducon Disagree; field-specific writing needs to happen before senior year, though some will need that year for proficiency #fycchat -9:40 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @literarychica @DrDavisTCE I think it's very hard for those who don't regularly write to be writing teachers. It's easy to forget #fycchat -9:40 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE Sorry, off topic. We're finishing up research papers. Third major draft. Frustrating. #fycchat -9:40 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog RT @disedlibrarian: Gentle reminder: librarians can help with assignments more if they are informed of assignments ahead of time! #fycchat -9:40 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE Asked them if their boss will like them not showing up, showing up late, not doing work. They all agreed the boss would not. #fycchat -9:40 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE Tried a new approach today. Told my students that they are in college to get a better job. So right now college IS their job. #fycchat -9:39 PM Apr 13th, 2011 drnels @JudyArzt Yep, different levels of argument, and we get into it most directly and deeply in the second-year writing course.#fycchat -9:39 PM Apr 13th, 2011 disedlibrarian Gentle reminder: librarians can help with assignments more if they are informed of assignments ahead of time! #FYCchat -9:39 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @DrDavisTCE Yup, agreed! Writing is hard. Funny thing, writing a dissertation has humbled me. I understand better their problems. #fycchat -9:39 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @readywriting Most students are seniors before their writing about field-specific research can improve from working w/ non-expert. #FYCchat -9:38 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson If they don't remember what they write in the class, isn't it just like they skipped the class? #fycchat -9:38 PM Apr 13th, 2011 drnels @readywriting We had a course in Persuasive Writing and one in Argumentation when I arrived. We deleted Persuasion.#fycchat -9:38 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @Bill_Torgerson Well, no. I'm a product of the ed system too. haha. But I do conduct research for my own benefit these days. #fycchat -9:38 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @readywriting Persuasive first, argument second. That is a bit crazy! #fycchat -9:38 PM Apr 13th, 2011 ryancordell Coming in late to #fycchat-but tonight's subject is a great one-teaching students to engage with sources... -9:38 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting I realize that that last tweet may open me up to ridicule. Oops. #FYCchat -9:37 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @bzeducon Yes, librarians=super helpful. Had one come to class today & explain something in 3 mins that would take me 15. :) #fycchat -9:37 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt @drnels Isn't all writing in some way an argument, or do you mean learning the classical conventions of argument? #fycchat-9:37 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @drnels Is the film and book No Country for Old Men an argument? #fycchat -9:37 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE I just hope they remember the steps when they get out of my class and into someone else's. #fycchat -9:37 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @drnels We have a ridiculous distinction: Persuasive paper in first class, argument in second. Yeesh. #FYCchat -9:37 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE My students have not written papers before (often) or they don't remember writing them. So I take them through step-by-step. #fycchat -9:37 PM Apr 13th, 2011 drnels :: We don't get to argumentation until the second-year writing course, though. #fycchat -9:36 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @comPOSITIONblog I don't think it should be in the first year at all. But at one point, students need to be...gently reminded. #FYCchat -9:36 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @comPOSITIONblog @drnels You're doing this for the sake of learning only, right? :) #fycchat -9:36 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @DrDavisTCE Like @readywriting said, we know a lot about writing but not much about physics papers, for ex. #fycchat -9:36 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt @Bill_Torgerson Well-Put! "f you can read like a writer, you can write in any discipline where you've learned the content enough" #fycchat -9:35 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @readywriting Yes, but we don't need a discipline-specific FYC class for every subject. #fycchat -9:35 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @literarychica Age-old problem. I've seen writing program partnerships w/ depts that have helped. Also good to ally w/ librarians. #FYCchat -9:35 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @DrDavisTCE @readywriting We all go to the library and the bookstore. #fycchat -9:35 PM Apr 13th, 2011
_Ji_Na_ @readywriting #FYCchat Yes. If you use the annotation to "justify" the use of the sec. source. -9:35 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt @bzeducon Agree, FYC is intro to read/write argument, but still need review in disciplines. #fycchat -9:34 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @comPOSITIONblog If you can read like a writer, you can write in any discipline where you've learned the content enough... #fycchat -9:34 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @comPOSITIONblog This assumes good writers. I'm thrilled if I can coax them to adequate, and hope they remember what we learned. #FYCchat -9:34 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @drnels Yes, but I think that's a flaw on the ed. system's part. No one will go beyond for the sake of learning, only for a grade. #fycchat -9:34 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @literarychica Yes. Writing is hard, too! And it doesn't get easier when it's in their new discipline. #fycchat -9:33 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @katmeis Agreed, and integrating sources is a massive test of critical thinking skills. #FYCchat -9:33 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @JudyArzt FYC is time to learn to read/write about arguments. Later, students can see what's missing in their field & research it. #FYCchat -9:33 PM Apr 13th, 2011 drnels :: I notice students in our Rhetoric and PW major, though, won't do research unless "research" is in the name of the assignment. #fycchat -9:33 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @DrDavisTCE I think they mostly arent ready to be discipline writers. They are ready to read in discipline and write back to us. #fycchat -9:33 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog her/his self into the rhetoric of any given field by knowing their role as a writer, their audience, and the form.#fycchat -9:33 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @DrDavisTCE I think the prob is a) teaching writing is hard! b) some don't see how research in discipline+writing can overlap. #fycchat -9:33 PM Apr 13th, 2011
katmeis Mom chiming in on #FYCchat. My theory: student probs w/ writing are often probs w/ analytical thinking. Memorization has not prepared them. -9:32 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @Bill_Torgerson It does. The trick is also to harness so it doesn't turn into: dear diary, I hated high school so much!#FYCchat -9:32 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE RT @JudyArzt Embedding writing associates in discipline courses can address melding discipline, research, & writing #fycchat -9:32 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog Maybe I'm the odd-one out, but I don't think we necessarily need "discipline writing." A good writer figures out how to insert + #fycchat -9:32 PM Apr 13th, 2011
gossettphd @mday666 Yes, exactly. This is what I do in my Writing with Video course--integrate writing and video.http://bit.ly/fUOWgP #fycchat -9:32 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @readywriting I actually find browsing the library useful for that. If I have smaller classes, I can take them all and we can look. #fycchat -9:32 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt @DrDavisTCE Embedding writing associates in discipline courses can address melding discipline, research, & writing#fycchat -9:32 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @drnels That's good. Writing is EVERYONE'S responsibility. What do I know about a physics paper? #FYCchat -9:31 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE Maybe we can have discipline writers come to class and talk. #fycchat -9:31 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @literarychica @bzeducon Don't we? Wouldn't it be cool if we could make them see our class makes a difference in their discipline? #fycchat -9:31 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @readywriting @Bill_Torgerson I imagine personal invigorates. #fycchat -9:31 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting It's hard for students in their first year to really develop a discipline specific research paper. And I'm of little help on topic #FYCchat -9:31 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @bzeducon Here here! Problem is, many fac in other disciplines think we hold key to all students' writing issues.#fycchat -9:30 PM Apr 13th, 2011 drnels :: Our College of A&S abandoned the second-semester research course in favor of teaching research in the disciplines.#fycchat -9:30 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @mday666 @gossettphd Can you write a Facebook page? Write a movie? #fycchat -9:30 PM Apr 13th, 2011
jbankier RT @readywriting: One thing I make an effort to show is how much time and effort go into the peer reviewed article: 3-5 years. They don't believe me. #FYCchat -9:30 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @Bill_Torgerson I guess I'm moving towards that with my ed reform posts. It always is very personal. #FYCchat -9:30 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE Rarely are discipline-specific writing courses taught by writing and discipline practitioners. Seen it, but rare. #fycchat -9:29 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @comPOSITIONblog We do a documentary film Lots of times students find things doing that and revise those into their research papers #fycchat -9:29 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @literarychica @readywriting Problem with discipline-specific writing courses is either writing teachers teach or discipline. #fycchat -9:29 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt @bzeducon Agree, research needs to be taught across disciplines, bit like WAC philosophy! #fycchat -9:29 PM Apr 13th, 2011 mday666 @gossettphd #fycchat So writing is just one way that students compose. Thinking about other media helps improve the writing. -9:29 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting I've done both: had them research a more general topic that interests them and discipline specific. #FYCchat -9:28 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson The SPN also has a practitioner research feel or something like Didion's Year of Magical Thinking. #fycchat -9:28 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @readywriting I agree! Discipline-specific writing courses should handle that. But we can teach arguments, handling sources, etc. #fycchat -9:28 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @readywriting @literarychica Great point. Why are FYC fac the beasts of burden? FYC can't do it all. Depts need to teach research. #FYCchat -9:28 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog you often bring in outside voices of experts or examples you saw in other media. #fycchat -9:28 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @readywriting @Bill_Torgerson It's sort of a documentary style voice. Like Food INC or No Impact Man. Ever hear of those? #fycchat -9:28 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt @DrDavisTCE Agree, it is easier to teach research w/in context of a discipline. #fycchat -9:28 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog Reminding my students that they "use research" all the time is important. In a conversation, if you wanted to make a point + #fycchat -9:28 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @mday666 Yes. I just started where I am now. So I didn't have any say. We'll see if faculty rebel. #FYCchat -9:28 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @readywriting @bzeducon @literarychica Teach business writing and social sciences writing... So I'm becoming discipline aware. #fycchat -9:27 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting I think this chat has evolved to how to make research more meaningful. It's a good thing. #FYCchat -9:27 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @bzeducon But I haven't taught second sem comp here. At Big Public U we always encouraged them to think of issues w/in discipline.#fycchat -9:27 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @Bill_Torgerson I did something like that as a student at Pace (not in FYW). It was 1 of my favorite papers I wrote as an undergrad #fycchat -9:27 PM Apr 13th, 2011 jbankier RT @readywriting: Why the "Research Paper" Isn't Working - Inside Higher Ed http://t.co/ih3fgya via @AddThis#FYCchat -9:26 PM Apr 13th, 2011 gossettphd This also transitions nicely to multimedia projects. RT@mday666: moving away from research papers to researched arguments #fycchat -9:26 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @DrDavisTCE @mday666 But it won't cut plagiarism of the Wikipedia variety that involves borrowing bkgrd info. See recent WaPo case. #FYCchat -9:26 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @bzeducon At Big Public U where I worked it wasn't. I don't think here at comm coll it isn't either. #fycchat -9:26 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @bzeducon @literarychica That's the challenge. We're writing, not subject, specialists. How do we balance? How do we choose? #FYCchat -9:25 PM Apr 13th, 2011 mday666 @readywriting #fycchat there are advantages to being in charge of a writing program. We don't standardize, but we insist on meeting outcomes -9:25 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson I call our research paper a Scholarly Personal Narrative. You tell a personal story with scholarly research layered in. #fycchat -9:25 PM Apr 13th, 2011
macquarieVC RT @readywriting: Skimming the Surface - Inside Higher Ed http://t.co/t19pQvs via @AddThis #FYCchat -9:25 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt @comPOSITIONblog Transfer is hard to assess; need reinforcement in follow-up courses. #fycchat -9:25 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting I think the most interesting things about the two articles I just tweeted is the volume of comments. It hits a nerve!#FYCchat -9:24 PM Apr 13th, 2011 mday666 #fycchat the Showcase today was chock full of examples of these, and they need do it in at least two forms: poster w/ exp. and a written arg -9:24 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @mday666 That's what we're doing in my class too. I think I need to be more obvious about how those skills transfer though. #fycchat -9:24 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @literarychica @readywriting Is the research paper anchored in a discipline? Or, is it general research? Only 2ndary sources? #FYCchat -9:24 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @mday666 That's what I'm trying to do to. Unfortunately, our new "standardized" curric insist on one.#FYCchat -9:24 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @mday666 One of my co-workers does this. She says it keeps them from plagiarizing other people's essays, b/c those don't exist. #fycchat -9:24 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @mday666 Just tweeted them (Have to tweet them on the page to get the shortened url). #FYCchat -9:23 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt #fycchat@readywriting Excellent piece : Skimming the Surface - Inside Higher Ed http://t.co/t19pQvs -9:23 PM Apr 13th, 2011 mday666 I'm moving away from research papers to researched arguments on local topics that matter to students #fycchat -9:23 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting Why the "Research Paper" Isn't Working - Inside Higher Ed http://t.co/ih3fgya via @AddThis #FYCchat -9:22 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @readywriting At my school fyc is 2 sems. Second sem ends w/ research paper. I like that method better. #fycchat -9:22 PM Apr 13th, 2011 mday666 #fycchat "Study of First Year Students' Research Papers Finds Little Evidence that they Understand Sources. -9:22 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting Skimming the Surface - Inside Higher Edhttp://t.co/t19pQvs via @AddThis #FYCchat -9:22 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @DrDavisTCE Right. As if the difference b/t annotated bibliography & essay is transition sentences, introduction, & conclusion. #FYCchat -9:21 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @readywriting I think it doesn't have to be in first sem comp. The skills can be taught in other ways. #fycchat -9:21 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @readywriting I hadn't thought of talking about it like that. Wow. Gotta write that down. #fycchat -9:21 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @readywriting That's a great idea. I think I'll have to give that a whirl next semester. #fycchat -9:21 PM Apr 13th, 2011 disedlibrarian I have a lesson with multiple sources on the same topic-whoever gets the peer-rev can answer the most ?'s #FYCchat-9:21 PM Apr 13th, 2011 
Bill_Torgerson @comPOSITIONblog @Bill_Torgerson My somewhat embarrassing videos: http://bit.ly/h8Y15O #fycchat -9:20 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @comPOSITIONblog Like that idea, mini-rhetorical essays. #fycchat -9:20 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @readywriting I think that even if we get rid of it, other disciplines will not. #fycchat -9:20 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting One thing I make an effort to show is how much time and effort go into the peer reviewed article: 3-5 years. They don't believe me. #FYCchat -9:20 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt @DrDavisTCE The nursing students start to understand peer-reviewed sources in FYC and use them later. #fycchat -9:20 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @eetempleton @readywriting Lucky if they summarize more than p. 1 or abstract. #CitationProject data suggests that's all they see. #FYCchat -9:20 PM Apr 13th, 2011 mday666 #fycchat ack I don't know tinyurl and the url is too long. Google Inside Higher Ed and The Citation Project for an overview. -9:20 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @readywriting My students are going to have to write research essays in other classes. I want them to know how.#fycchat -9:20 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog I had my students writing mini-rhetorical analysis essays on sources that directly opposed their ideas.#fycchat -9:19 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE I made my fy Humanities classes identify why the sources they used were appropriate. That helped a bit. #fycchat -9:19 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting What did we think about the IHE/CCCC news about failing in our efforts, and that perhaps the "research essay" should go? #FYCchat -9:19 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt @bzeducon @readywriting @readywriting Agree, we need to discuss different types of sources and when to use each.#fycchat -9:19 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @comPOSITIONblog I do too. I tell 'em to think of them in an organic way. What do you need to support your ideas? Or show opp views?#fycchat -9:19 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @readywriting Yes, I do that too. Although perhaps not as clearly as you do. Maybe a game? "CBS" "JAMA" Most right wins. #fycchat -9:19 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @DrDavisTCE What you say reminds me that I did annotated bibs and then half the class left thinking that was a works cited. #fycchat -9:18 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting When I have them find sources, they have to explain how/why they are going to use it in their essay. #FYCchat -9:18 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @Bill_Torgerson Would love to see & share those videos with my students, if you're willing to share. #fycchat -9:18 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting I actually take the time to talk about the difference btw peer-reviewed vs newspaper/mag vs about.com. It's pretty effective. #FYCchat -9:18 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog @readywriting I didn't have them do an entire one, but I had them do two entries as an in-class writing. I think it did help. #fycchat -9:17 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson I make them use scholarly sources + whatever else they want Not organic I know. I also do tutorial videos on how to find sources. #fycchat -9:17 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE I actually found that doing annotated bibs made things worse. My students then tried to use those wholesale in their papers. #fycchat -9:17 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @readywriting They confuse item in the lit review for the actual thesis of the author b/c they read in segments--and only once. #FYCchat -9:17 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE We talk about levels of appropriateness. What's good for high school v college v upper division v grad school. Helps, I think. #fycchat -9:16 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting Does anyone find that doing annotated bibliographies work well? #FYCchat -9:16 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog Admittedly, "outside source" is not always a success. #fycchat -9:16 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @JudyArzt @DrDavisTCE I also collect annotated printed off scholarly articles. #fycchat -9:16 PM Apr 13th, 2011
nobluffing @comPOSITIONblog a nap sounds nice! I'm here too..don't have a lot to add. We don't write with sources in my developmental courses. #fycchat -9:16 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @JudyArzt Yes, I have my students later do that. Not normally freshmen though. Are the nursing student fy students?#fycchat -9:15 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog I try to have them think "outside source" rather than "research" or "citation." #fycchat -9:15 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @bzeducon @Bill_Torgerson @readywriting Yes. They love the story but not realize it's an argument that might also be persuading #fycchat -9:15 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE I think having the students write on both sides helps them see that just because they wrote it doesn't mean they think it. #fycchat -9:15 PM Apr 13th, 2011 JudyArzt @DrDavisTCE Our nursing students need to use peer-reviewed scholary articles in the discipline, and submit these with their papers #fycchat -9:14 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE I start with the overview of controversy. Then we move to the argument/persuasion paper. #fycchat -9:14 PM Apr 13th, 2011 mday666 #fycchat sorry to be late. Have you brought up The Citation Project yet? -9:14 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @mday666 Nice. We're chatting about teaching sources in all its glory. #FYCchat -9:14 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @Bill_Torgerson @readywriting They can't summarize the argument of an article but they can say what it's about (event, play, etc.) #FYCchat -9:14 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE They are writing what they don't believe, so they know the authors do it too. Esp. when they find the same author on both sides. #fycchat -9:13 PM Apr 13th, 2011 mday666 Hi #fycchat what's cookin'? Still high on a fantastic showcase today. Over 120 groups presented posters, and well over 200 attended. -9:13 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE I haven't had students think a reference is what the author thinks. However, that may be because I make them write BOTH sides. #fycchat -9:13 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting Actually, my bud @qui_oui was asking: How do we teach students just b/c it's in the paper doesn't mean it's their argument/opinion? #FYCchat -9:13 PM Apr 13th, 2011
eetempleton @bzeducon @readywriting They summary source material instead of engaging it in conversation #Fycchat -9:13 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @bzeducon Hate to admit it, but sometimes I do that whole fact/tree v. arg/forest myself. I guess, that's something to share. #fycchat -9:12 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @DrDavisTCE @Bill_Torgerson @readywriting They don't have to stay in field, but that's a possibility. #fycchat -9:12 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @bzeducon Like that. Do you have the problem where they think it's what the author thinks, even if it's just a reference?#FYCchat -9:12 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @bzeducon @readywriting In what way don't they see the forest? Ha. Like you're got room to answer that. #fycchat -9:11 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @literarychica Only for the Bad Website Presentation. I figure if they know what a bad website is, they also can recognize good. #fycchat -9:11 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @Bill_Torgerson @readywriting So they are looking at topics in their field? That's good. My students would like that.#fycchat -9:11 PM Apr 13th, 2011 comPOSITIONblog Sorry I'm late all. I had some problems getting onto Twitter (namely a nap that lasted until 9pm haha) Some great ideas though! #fycchat -9:10 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @readywriting No. They read articles and pull out discrete facts/trees that go w/ the whole argument/forest, which they never see. #FYCchat -9:10 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting My students are currently working on their ed reform op-eds. Want them to know they're allowed to express opinions+how to support #FYCchat -9:10 PM Apr 13th, 2011 literarychica @DrDavisTCE So you have them go with topics they are familiar with? #fycchat -9:10 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @readywriting @Bill_Torgerson I think that works. What do other nurses say? What do nurses complain about? Patients? Nursing pay #fycchat -9:09 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE My students are urban, but nursing, engineering, teaching, too. Also career stuff: hvac, truck driving. #fycchat -9:09 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @DrDavisTCE I like that. We are all, indeed, experts on something (ask me about swimming sometime). #FYCchat -9:09 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @Bill_Torgerson Nursing, vet tech, engineering tech, teaching (I know, gulp). #FYCchat -9:08 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE Lets them know we aren't just talking about academic expertise. That frees them up to find things they know and love. Surfing, etc #fycchat -9:08 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE Students have trouble identifying what they are expert at. I tell them I am an expert at laundry, not so much at cleaning house. #fycchat -9:07 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson @readywriting @Bill_Torgerson What are some of the jobs the students go on to do? #fycchat -9:07 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon @readywriting They mine sources for reference info instead of engaging arguments. #FYCchat -9:07 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE @Bill_Torgerson As long as you make them tell you what you are expert on FIRST and find something related to that, it's great. #fycchat -9:07 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @Bill_Torgerson How do you teach scholarly? I teach at rural state u - they have NO INTEREST in that. Want training then job. #FYCchat -9:07 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE We discuss author bias and how you don't see what you agree with. Then we talk about biases in everyday stuff we are exposed to. #fycchat -9:06 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson I've thought of but never tried the bad website presentation. #fycchat -9:06 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting Why not start with all the ways our students get sources "wrong" and see if we can't trouble shoot. #FYCchat -9:06 PM Apr 13th, 2011 Bill_Torgerson I ask my students to join a scholarly conversation of their choice. I think one point here might be how I teach "scholarly" #fycchat -9:06 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE For the overview of controversy paper (researching both sides of the question), I tell them what to use. #fycchat#fycchat -9:05 PM Apr 13th, 2011 bzeducon Great. Let's start w/ propaganda. We want them to read critically and not just take it at face value: author bias, allusions, etc. #FYCchat -9:05 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting RT @DrDavisTCE: For evaluating sources, I have them tell me what theyre expert at. Then discuss evaluation. Then find a bad website #FYCchat -9:05 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE It's in TETYCA March 2011, long version is. But those bad website presentations are GOOD! #fycchat #fycchat -9:05 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting I have tried to do it for argument essays, that the sources are to add weight or ethos to their argument. #FYCchat -9:04 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE For evaluating sources, I have them tell me what they are expert at. Then discuss evaluation. Then find a bad website.#fycchat #fycchat -9:04 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting One of the ways I do it with my basic writers is to provide the source, then work from there (the propaganda essay).#FYCchat -9:03 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting @DrDavisTCE Yeah, I just went through my students' essays and wow. It didn't go well. #FYCchat -9:03 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting How do we teach our students to evaluate sources (I use concept of ethos), find sources, read sources, integrate sources? #FYCchat -9:02 PM Apr 13th, 2011 DrDavisTCE I'm not sure I can write about this, since many of my students didn't use them correctly. #fycchat #fycchat -9:02 PM Apr 13th, 2011 readywriting Tonight we're going to be talking about teaching our students about sources. Note that this was decided last week, before the IHE #FYCchat -9:02 PM Apr 13th, 2011
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